The Secret to Joyful Aging: How to Live Longer and Happier with Dr. Kerry Burnight | The AgeTech Podcast S5E11
We spend so much time talking about how to live longer – but what if the real goal is to live better? In this week’s episode of The AgeTech Podcast, I sat down with Dr. Kerry Burnight, a gerontologist and author of JoySpan, to talk about what it really takes to live a joyful, meaningful, and connected life as we age. Kerry’s “JoySpan Matrix” is one of those rare frameworks that’s both grounded in science and completely doable – no biohacking or miracle supplements required. Just small, intentional choices that can make every year of life richer, lighter, and yes – more joyful.
Catch the full conversation on Youtube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or scroll down for the transcript (auto-generated, so pardon any oddities – the bots are still learning!)
Keren Etkin: Kerry, welcome to the show!
Dr. Kerry Burnight: Oh, I’m delighted to be here, Karen. Thanks for having me.
Keren Etkin: Thank you so much Thank you so much for joining. I wanted to have you ever since I got my hands on this book, I have and I have to tell you after it and reading it and rereading it, I love that it’s not only inspiring, but also very actionable. So, So, I guess my first question is, what inspired you to write it?
Dr. Kerry Burnight: I started my career in gerontology 30 years ago, and it was. Focused exclusively on people who had endured incredible suffering. So, my partner and I opened the nation in the US the first elder abuse forensic center, and there we worked with people who had endured physical abuse, psychological abuse, neglect, self neglect, and financial exploitation. who. Really, we’re alone and slumped over in wheelchairs. And the suffering really my eyes. And there was a point, and I did that for I would say 13 or 14 years and, crying on my way home from work and, I this sort of epiphany on an airplane as one seems to when we’re up in the air, although it was important and needed to help people after they had gone through these bad situations, wouldn’t it be so much better if we could get. To people earlier before the suffering endured. And when you look in the academic research literature from all over the world, there were clues about things that would fortify people internally as well as externally in order to step into longevity, to be the strongest, safest, most. Vital, proactive version of themselves. And so when the plane landed that day,
I thought
okay, it’s
Kay.
To move away from this part of my career, which I have loved and into this unknown about trying to look at. What predicts quality of long life and that prompted
the
word
joyspan
So, lifespan, many years you live matters.
And we’re all trying to maximize that. And then more recently we have used the word health span. long
falls off
enjoying good health.
Help.
Matters. We’re all certainly hoping to really maximize our lifespan, but what I found in working with thousands of people was that long life. Even a long life in good health didn’t mean much if you didn’t like your life. So that’s what prompted me to think about joy span. And the word joy, I think
Joy,
to define right from the
right from the.
what I am not talking about is happy all the time, or some kind of ecstasy, and I’m certainly. Against toxic positivity, and that is downplaying the very real parts of life that every single person endures. But joy, when you define it according to the psychological association definition, defined as wellbeing and satisfaction. That I think we do have the right to strive for. So span is the quality of your long life. what I’m so happy to talk to you about today is what are the elements that we should be practicing in order to maximize the quality of our long lives?
Keren Etkin: Yes. What are Yes. What are those elements? You have the joy matrix in the book, book and you also have it, you have like multiple people that everyone knows, like Maya Angelou and you analyze their pen joys pen matrix, which I love. Can you explain this concept a little bit?
Dr. Kerry Burnight: Yes. So a matrix is something that is made up of elements and so. When I first was digging into this years ago, I was overwhelmed because the literature has of variables of things that we, there was generosity. There was. Grit. There was humor there. There was just gratitude.
There were so many things and I was like, how can I do a thousand things
things.
On happily when you dig into it? And they do group in four areas and so four we can handle, and four, there are four elements. And I like to start out thinking about. physical part of it. Okay, so physically with our bodies, we know that there are four elements of physical or physical fitness that is cardiovascular strength flexibility and agility. So within those four categories, we each day and as early as possible, start working on those with little steps forward to improve our flexibility, to improve our ability to, lift heavy things. Okay, now we move that same thought to our internal strength, our internal fitness, and there are four things in that.
and I’ll go through the four first before we get into ’em. They’re grow, connect, adapt, and give. each of these could have been phrased, for example, growth or, but I made them. Intentionally to be a verb because they all take work. And when I have patients who are enjoying a great quality of
Followed by
other people
under the.
and think, oh, they’re just so lucky. Those are great genetics. That’s just lucky. Lucky. But the research shows us that it’s less than 25% genetic and. why we, it’s good news. We have an opportunity to get in there and make make small choices every day that are going to put us on a better path. So, to get back to the matrix of these four things, the first G is grow. When we’re younger, we are constantly afforded and pushed opportunities to grow and step out of our comfort zone.
So we say to our kids, get up on the diving board and jump into the pool. Okay, now go and try to, do this thing in front of the class that you’ve never done before and learn mathematics. And yet, as we get older, sometimes we are giving ourselves this like, well. I guess that ship has sailed.
I don’t need to try anything new or I’m just, it’s too late for me. And that’s really damaging to our brains and to our ability to keep intellectually stimulated, which then, then the body follows when you have something that you’re pursuing. And so I think of it as. Encouraging yourself every day to do hard things and to ask yourself, in what area am I growing right now? And if you’re listening and you’re thinking. Oh. I don’t really have something that I’m growing in right now. Not to worry. It is a constant kind of s step forward. And then the first step is curiosity. thinking about what am I curious about? And in the book, I list that a hundred different things, but there are probably millions of things that we could be curious about. A patient I was working with recently said. I am, I’m bored. I am not growing. I have done all the
all
were on my list and I I don’t, I feel stagnant. And so I said that’s step one is just recognizing it. Good. And step two is thinking, what are you curious about? So. really dug into a lot of different areas and in his case, he was quite curious about crypto because he’d been hearing about it on the news and didn’t know like, is this something good?
Is this something ridiculous? What is going on? So he got, so he really dug in and then he found other people who are interested in this. in addition to a group that was already existing, he created a group, had. Men and women come over to his house,
Knowledge stick together and all.
Talk about it, and it really, I saw in him this spark that had been missing.
And so
So that’s
supported in the literature and something that we can each do. It doesn’t have to be big. It can be some little something of, I, for example,
Keren Etkin: example.
Dr. Kerry Burnight: in my house and I don’t know how to play piano, so I do always think when I walk
When I walked by
right there, girl.
there, girl.
and try to learn. Learn a bit. I haven’t yet, but I assure you that I will. So let’s get to the second one. We’ve done grow. The second is connect. Most listeners are probably already really familiar with all the information that shows us how beneficial human connection is and how harmful loneliness is. So there’s that great statistic that. Shows us that those who identify as, who would say I feel lonely as we all do sometimes. it’s the same as smoking 14 cigarettes a day. So it’s, matters. And the definition of loneliness is important here too. To be lonely is to wish you had more social interaction than you currently have so you
So
with your partner in a room full of people. Conversely, you can be not lonely by yourself. So I’m not talking about just proximity to people and everybody has a different threshold, but if you, while you’re listening right now, think. Yeah, I’d like a little more social interaction. Good. That, again, is identifying, this is something that is going to make a difference in my longevity.
In fact, some studies show that it’s the most important predictor in the quality of your long life. if you are like me, there are times where you think. I’m not really terribly close with anyone right now. I’ve gotten into my work or my raising my children and I’ve fallen off the close friendship. That is normal, but it also then takes work to get back into a proactive approach to human connection. And the way to do that is what I call be that friend. And that friend is the friend. Who picks up the phone to call to make a lunch date, who texts and says, I remember that you were going to have a test on this or that.
How did that go? Sends a card. the anniversary or maybe on the anniversary of your mother’s passing, right? It takes, so anytime a patient comes to me and says, nobody reaches out to me, I have nothing to look forward to. I’m just really by myself and alone. listen carefully because that’s the kind thing to do, but then afterwards I
Pants
question. Tell me about
I found.
your outreach efforts to other people. they say, oh, well, I’m not really
I’m not.
Reaches out. Like, ding, ding. There it is. We each need to be the one who reaches out. And sometimes it’s uncomfortable and sometimes it’s kissing a lot of frogs until you find the one. And so I have another patient who she is on her own after the death of her husband. Her kids all live far away. She has, vision impairment so she isn’t driving. So there’s a lot of a lot of reasons why it’s difficult to connect. So when she identified that she would like more social interaction, Put together a plan where she, right next door, there was a young mother who was a single mother who had four children, I said, what if you went over there and around dinner time and to say, when you’re making dinner, is it possible that it would be helpful for me to entertain any of the kids or even hold any of the kids? She went over there and it took some bravery to do and this mother said, no thank you. And so my patient was like, oh gosh, that kind of hurt, but okay. Yeah, worries. Just thought I’d check. So what was different is that she didn’t give up. She then went and a few houses down. There was a. A married couple who she asked the same question to, and the husband who was the one who stayed home, he said, I love nothing more because my wife works late and I’m doing the cooking and the kids always want my attention. It’s like you’ve manifested my dream of someone to help me out during this time and, but if she had given up on the first try, so little tiny interactions like asking the name of the person who is serving you, your coffee at the coffee shop or at the
For
thinking about a friend that. You had cared about, that you lost contact with and maybe out of the blue saying, hello Sam.
love Sam,
It’s been 20
maybe 20 years. I was
popped in my mind
conflict modulate
you were
help.
Like a really proactive approach to connection. Okay, so we’ve done grow, done connect. Now we’re on the A, which is adapt. Sometimes people will say to me, well, I just wanna age gracefully, and I must say I as a gerontologist haven’t known anyone who has aged gracefully because growing older is not a particularly graceful thing.
Being a human is not always very graceful. So we’re honest with ourselves. We are going to have changes, we’re going to have challenges, and ultimately the end for all of us
For all of us to the same. It’s not a bad
my undergraduate I
horses.
let’s
I always.
with mortality.
And then I show behind me a big circle and it’s all the way filled in red. a hundred percent mortality rate. So the, we’re not with all this longevity craze sometimes. I think, like I just do all these things, I’m somehow not going to get old and not die, and never works. So along the way, you’re going to have physical. Changes and challenges and unwanted diagnosis of the loss of friends our partners. It’s going to be either ourselves or our partners who pass away. And because of this, it matters that we are able to adapt. So a big differentiator is can we. Cope with these very real hard, often heartbreaking challenges. Happily, there is a literature, about adapting, and in fact, it is a. Two professors in
Israel
who came up with the adaptation scale that I used in the
whatever.
and I admire their work so much. And then when we look at coping, there is both internal coping mechanisms and external coping mechanisms that we can consciously employ and try.
And so in the book, I have a checklist of different things we could try. And I’ll just give you one example. I. More internal and it’s the fancy term cognitive behavioral therapy. But what it is the most simple, practical way of when a thought comes in, like, I can’t be happy again. I can’t experience joy because the love of my life has passed away. With cognitive behavioral therapy, you can within your mind, replace that thought with another thought is kiri, I hear you, but can you imagine that you can still experience nature? reach out to someone or have, enjoy your sip of coffee, even in this grief of losing your husband. And that change in thinking over time. know, we have tens of thousands of thoughts
Somebody to.
and by replacing some of these thoughts, not by denying the grief, but what does really break my heart is that. A lot of times people have 20 years after the death of their partner, and those years either are gonna be daily suffering, that person’s going to think I’m gonna honor that person by still trying to use this time of my life in a way that I can still experience the joy, because I think our loved ones would want that for us. So we’ve done grow. We’ve done connect, we’ve done adapt, and that brings us to the final G, which is giving and give is my favorite one. It ties to the powerful. Research on purpose. So a researcher at UCLA named Steven Cole did a study looking at the epigenetic gene expression. So I think of genes like a piano key.
So it’s a question of you can have a gene, but whether it’s going to be pressed down,
Practice
And
and,
put in quite a few variables to predict. and antiviral load,
and
was all the variables that you would expect. Health habits, diet, sleep. he also put in a question of, do you feel like your life has purpose? I don’t think he was thinking that was going to, and that was not his particularly main thing, but when the results came back with all these variables held constant purpose was a powerful predictor of epigenetic expression Shown in inflammation, in antiviral load.
And.
even he was surprised.
And when I first heard about it, it was in the New York Times as opposed to the academic journal. So I read the article and thought. Aha. thought so. Just anecdotal, anecdotally from my patients. And so then I went and looked up the academic article and it inspired me to think how can, if this was a medication, we would be clamoring for it or an injection, we would think. And yet, so let’s talk about purpose because it can be a little like, Ugh, capital P, purpose, I need to solve cancer, or something like that. But purpose is usually small. And it’s not just one, but it can, when you think of it as giving, it’s how can you find a way to give of yourself? And happily, as we get older, there’s a lot of things that get better. never publicized because fear makes money. This anti-aging industry is like. Fed by fear. this other non lucrative message that is true from the research is that things get better as you get older. For example, you don’t care as much what people think about you. Only 56 and I’m already starting to get this wonderful benefit, and it is. Glorious. Can’t wait to be 86, 96 and 106. We also have the potential for greater problem solving. So as a result of both neurological integration of our left and right hemisphere, with a lifetime of solving problems, as we grow older, we have the potential of having different ways of thinking about and solving problems. Wow, that’s what
Know if that’s what,
But if
but it.
It in ourselves or we’re too beaten down by ageism to step into it, then we’re not willing to contribute it. So I want people to recognize what they have and then offer it. Okay, back to what gets better as you get older, there is greater emotional stability, so not such big ups and downs. Greater potential for Richer spirituality, appreciation of nature and music and art, and appreciation of our friendships. Greater acceptance. And here’s a biggie that the world needs now. that ability to not be me. Ego first. But to really think about like what is the greater good? recognizing that older you possesses these that the world needs, then purpose and giving is about then.
About them
Figuring out how to
figuring out how to offer these things. and
so like
so
would
I gamble
say you look in your backyard, that there are
that.
Pick the lemon, bring them over to somebody that, tiny, right? That’s not a, that’s not a earth shattering thing. yet, what a difference that can make because it you, you then get a good feeling that givers high.
The person thinks, wow, thank you for these lemons and. Do that over and over, and it’s like weightlifting. It’s not one little weightlift that makes you strong. It’s that. Over and over each day thinking about can I give and it’s, it can, people almost it, thinking of their give of the day. those are the people who are thriving in longevity. So we’re not, we don’t point to them and think, oh, it’s only what you eat, or your exercise or your lucky jeans. It’s those little daily choices
Keren Etkin: That is , is uh, an excellent recap of the Joyspan matrix. And you know, really, uh, took me by surprise Is how is how like you have, um, like you have, um, a chapter about the twins much how much of it is choice, Because we, Because we, we, we tend to think that that the genes that you’re born with and maybe your epigenetics choices, choices, all that all accumulates and a certain point.
You don’t have You don’t have any, any, any choice in the matter of how you’re going well you’re going to grow old. So what does the say say on how your joy span impacts your, your lifespan and your health span? I mean, what
at what point is it too late, if at all?
Dr. Kerry Burnight: I love that question because a lot of people it’s too late or they think it’s too late for their parents. I keep running into people who say, I read your book. I love it. I’m doing it. Too bad is too late for my parents. And I say, wait, tell me more about that. And then they say all these, awful things about their parents that are not rooted in the truth. So again, if you look at physical exercise, I don’t think you would ever say it’s too early to start, and I don’t think you would ever say it’s too late to start because things that benefit. Things that the research show builds our psychological wellbeing. it isn’t ever too early or too late and the, like we said, these are small, incremental things and people then would say, well, what about the fact that I’m living with. cancer diagnosis. I’m living with a, really disadvantaged, economic situation that leaves me very worried about how I’m gonna
pay for.
my medications or my food for that matter. in these very hard situations. matters even more that we feel the agency, that we, regardless of these very real hard situations, have choice in how we respond. And that’s not
Response that.
That is the oldest wisdom in the book. And in my book I write about Viktor Frankl. I mean that his, he said, regardless. I can maintain spiritual freedom. so I think even with, have a patient living with a LS, that’s a big, heavy, hard terminal condition, and yet I watch her maintain the choice in the little ways that she SAVs a piece of fruit or laughs with her daughter. It’s moving to me because it reminds me that regardless of our external circumstances, we do have control over our internal responses.
Not because it’s easy, but because it’s important and the legacy that people leave behind, the legacy that you’ll leave behind is how you stepped into the challenge. Of your life, and I was gonna say long life, but in the case of the woman I’m talking about, she’s not very old. not gonna be a long life, but these principles I watch in her.
So I’m really watching in ability to continue to be interested, to continue to grow. To connect with other humans to adapt to the fact that almost daily there are hard changes that, of things that she can’t do. And then giving, like leaving her legacy
About how
showing us how to stand in a intentional way during what to some people would be imaginable suffering.
Keren Etkin: Absolutely. And
Absolutely. And it
Yeah.
and
absolutely, and it’s such an inspiration. You have multiple examples in the book of people like back from back from difficult situations. And I love that you also provide like these little checklists really people really people can. they finish When they finish the book, really they can really have an action plan improving their Joyspan, which
I,
I absolutely loved Um, You also,
uh, mentioned Bryan Johnson in the book, which is someone who I’ve been following online. I think he’s what he’s doing, he’s very interesting. For those of you who may not be familiar, he’s a very wealthy tech. I Billionaire, I think, who has decided that he’s not going to die or grow old.
And it’s very interesting to see all the things that Um, Physically he’s really like experimenting on himself. one And one of the things that I assume you’ll agree with me on is that he seems to be. Not Not
enough putting enough emphasis or emphasis at all, all on like the joy span of life. advice what advice would you give these all these biohackers who are doing they everything they can?
They’re ticking all the boxes on health and physical wellness. What is develop? What develop? What need to do do they need to do to improve their joy span?
Dr. Kerry Burnight: I would argue that joy matters, moments of gratitude and being fully present and that feeling of, throwing your head back and laughing or, watching a sunset. There’s a lot to it. And far nobody has ever. Succeeded in not dying. And I also sometimes think, have people really thought it through that? Do we want to just keep living and living because there would be so very many of us and I. I, I think about the chronic conditions that we would be having and also the resources. So sometimes wonder a little like, have you really thought it through? Everybody’s gonna do their own. And of course appreciate and admire, his dedication, Bryan Johnson’s two. Being a human Guinea pig. When I listen to him, he says that he spends about six hours a day doing these kinds of things. He doesn’t sleep in the same bed with anybody else. ’cause it might impact his sleep. He, and when, from my perspective, it just seems like, huh, I would bet money that you were still going to grow old and die. then the question will be like, I. Did you use it in a way that you wanted to and maybe biohackers would say? Yes, I wanted to use all my time to try to do something that I didn’t succeed in because it’s impossible. But for the most of us, I think that we would agree that the quality of our life matters and that Wow. Yes, let’s do some of the things that enable us to try to maximize our health span. It is also important to think, like somebody will say to me, I just, I don’t know if I should have a little piece of chocolate after dinner. I like, I think you should. I think you should. think,
thank you.
And then a lot of the, this is some good news. The research shows that the same things that increase. The length of your life, your lifespan, and the length of your healthy life, your health span are also the same things that increase your joy span. So they do generally go in the same direction. So connection with other people enables you to live longer. better health and it’s more enjoyable. So those are all wins
So.
Lucky about that because it isn’t, so some people will say to me, well, the only thing that really makes me happy is indulgent eating and indulgent drinking and drinking, so much. And so that when people, when a patient would say that to me, we just untangle it.
Like, let’s talk, let’s get into it. Let’s talk about what you want to eat and the feelings that gives you. And a lot of times into, I’m not talking about people who are drinking a little, this is people who really want to drink a whole bunch. get into it, sometimes we disentangle it, and those were mechanisms to get to connection and fun and relaxation, and we can go. Love those. What if we went a different route to those? So I think for the most part they’re compatible and not
Probable and not
And that when you find, like an example that I
an example that I.
the book is my own 96-year-old mother and. She’s a person who was never an athlete. She didn’t have a perfect diet.
She, had some dessert and had some, a cocktail with her husband when my dad was alive. But how in the world then did she outlive everybody so much? And I think she started practicing these intentional choices, this joy span approach. Years and years ago, way before the book was in existence.
Because as I would learn these things, I would say, mom, did you know that if you continue to grow, it will keep you cognitively stimulated? And so she was, I’m not taking all the credit for her. She’s, she take the credit for herself, but she did implement a lot of this stuff. And so watching. The fact that it’s possible. So I started sharing her on Instagram at this account. That’s the underscore gerontologist. And what I have found is that millions of people all over the world have been hungry for models, for examples. And what I’ve also learned is that there are millions of people who are enjoying long joy spans. And you don’t have to be. I quote like super agere, and you don’t have to be water skiing at age 100, you don’t, you certainly don’t have to look young. I think sometimes our society gets so tangled in this putting together. Young and looking good. can look good at every age, but you don’t need to look young.
I
Down
incredible people in my life who are in their nineties and one hundreds, and they look old and they look so good, and so it feels very liberating to think I have been young. I still want to look good and that’s different for all of us.
For all of us.
Some bright lipstick and some fun glasses, or maybe a neat crazy hair kind of thing or whatever is your authentic you, or maybe it’s none of that.
But that radiance of stepping into your self-acceptance is what makes people so attractive, whereas this holding on. To what was behind you and trying to hold onto youth. I think that isn’t as attractive and it doesn’t feel as good. So I think we have a long way to go to examine our mindset around aging.
I. And when a thought comes in your mind, like, Ugh, look at all those chins, like, when you’re looking down at your phone, I’ll do I’ll demonstrate it. then to tell yourself, of course I’m gonna have those. That’s how your neck bends when you get into older ages and to replace our thoughts.
So when you can’t remember where you parked your car and your mind goes, oh no, I’m having a senior moment. I’m really losing it. To then again, say to yourself, I didn’t remember where my car was back in my twenties. That’s what humans do. Sometimes we don’t remember things and to proactively stop the powerful messaging, this internalized ageism. There’s a study at Yale showing those who held positive age beliefs like that. Age is a time of continued growth and value of yourself lived. 7.5 years longer than those who endorsed negative age beliefs that everything is declined. So those thoughts matter and even like, we don’t need to do those cards anymore, we don’t need to be fun of ourselves criticizing ourselves.
And especially when you look in the mirror in the morning. Again, just when a thought goes, oh no, there are, my eyes are puffy and they’re wrinkled and say, right, I’m seeing right through that. Let’s go.
just
Who cares
smile.
And like moving on. I think that’s, those are the people are such a inspiration to be around as opposed to the people are, feel so bad about the fact that they’re doing what is natural, which is growing older.
Keren Etkin: Absolutely. And I Absolutely. And I think on that working on that mindset has to be one of the hardest things in our ageist, society, because we bombarded with messages messages telling us that aging is wrong and wrinkles is wrong, and gray hair is wrong. And we have to really mindful to not to not let that muddy our consciousness because that ends up hurting us in the long term,
Dr. Kerry Burnight: You are
Keren Etkin: all of us.
Dr. Kerry Burnight: And I think about how not so very long ago, women didn’t have a vote because there was this erroneous messaging that somehow women were less than and. Now I think. Can we move toward a day that will look back and think? We used to be so ridiculous about growing older, but we stepped into it, and I don’t think it’s gonna come from others.
I think it’s gonna come from each of us ourselves and putting in the work to show subsequent generations We are not sorry. When people say, oh, they’ll say to my mom, you don’t even look that age. My mom is starting to say, ah, for me, this is how it looks. I’m not trying to be anything than I. The age that I am, or when people say like, you look good for your age, there’s no reason to say that we can choose to make it different than it was in the past because the way that we were doing it, of the self-loathing and clinging to youth. work for us. It’s not healthy. The only thing that it does is it puts a lot of billions and billions of dollars into the pockets of other people to keep making you feel bad about yourself.
I’ve had times
I
I was falling prey to it as we do, and there was a day where I was like, okay, I need to make my teeth wider. My hair a different color, my skin a different
came a different
I was
color.
what are you doing? You’re covering up all the stuff that you are in order to what? In order to, you’re not fooling anybody.
Nobody’s fooling anyone but by stepping into like, this is 82, bring it on then. Now we’re talking.
Keren Etkin: Yeah, exactly. And I Yeah, exactly. And I think that a when you become a mother, sort of even becomes that sort of even becomes even more important because you do wanna set an example. So you have to really work on self-acceptance and being a positive role model, especially if you have daughters.
Dr. Kerry Burnight: It’s absolutely so true because they are watching and at every stage. So, I am watching my mom navigate her nineties and learning, what works and what doesn’t work. And my kids who are all now adults are watching me as well. And if sometimes something’s gonna come out of my mouth that is critical to myself, it is up to me to stop, to absolutely stop that.
Keren Etkin: and we should Exactly, and we should consider ourselves lucky that we have 90-year-old in our models in our lives because previous generations just didn’t have
Dr. Kerry Burnight: Yes, absolutely. And none of us knows how much time we have, so that’s all the more reason, because this could be our last day, or our last day could be in 50 years. So. That’s all the more reason to like really get the, squeeze the joy out of it or, and set ourselves up for how we can access psychological wellbeing even in challenging times, and especially in challenging times.
Keren Etkin: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, if, if there’s one, or actually two things I’d like to take from this have a that you have a in, in
uh, in, in your all wellbeing and in your all own lifespan and joy span and also that you can and should have that chocolate as dessert for dinner
Dr. Kerry Burnight: Yes.
Keren Etkin: serve for dinner.
Dr. Kerry Burnight: I’m glad you were. Absolutely. And am. I’m grateful for your time and I’m grateful for all the work that you have done in this field and internationally in order to position people to. Create their own path to longevity in order to change it. Not because it’s not hard, is hard, I promise you, but because. Because it is hard to really step into it and to come up with solutions you have led the way in of solutions on how we can this unprecedented time. We have never had so many
so many people, people, history of humanity, and
are making
we are making them as we go. as can make as
or as bad
as Good, as
our effort
efforts
you’ve
and the workmaking a that you’ve done is really difference.
Keren Etkin: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you so much, Kerry. Thank you for writing this book. I absolutely and I enjoyed it and I do think that anyone who can read it. read it.
you’re If you’re read starting to read at six, it once read it once and then 16 and at 16 and at 26 I think that at any point in life gain you’ll gain something out of it. So thank you so much, and thank you for joining me on the podcast.
I’m so grateful. Thank you, Keren.